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“The secret to political integrity and discernment for Christians is a high view of God.”

By Filings on Fri, 04/19/24
Society & Culture
Electoral Ethics
Political Theology
Transcendence of God
Discernment

“They did not collapse the transcendence of God into the immanence of political exigency. And it was that very concern for the transcendent that made them wise actors in the world of the immanent.” - Carl Truman

Discussion

Profile picture for user WallyMorris
WallyMorris

NewDiscernment? High view of…

Fri, 04/19/24

Discernment? High view of God? Interesting article, but I wonder how much discernment Trueman has and how "high" his view of God is when Trueman believes Christians may drink hard liquor, as he does.

Wally Morris
Huntington, IN

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G. N. Barkman

NewHere we go again

Sat, 04/20/24

Perhaps Trueman has a high enough view of God to study Scripture thoroughly enough to understand and believe what it says about alcohol. In other words, a high enough view of God to accept what He has revealed as true? (Written by one who has chosen to be a total abstainer, but refuses to twist Scripture to teach people the Bible requires abstinence when it actually prohibits drunkenness.)

When are "Bible-believing Christians" going to understand and teach the Bible instead of the Bible revised and interpreted through the lens of cultural tradition?

G. N. Barkman

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WallyMorris

New"Cultural Tradition" is not…

Sat, 04/20/24

"Cultural Tradition" is not the reason for prohibiting "strong drink" (hard liquor). Any Christian who defends consuming hard liquor ignores the Biblical warnings/condemnation concerning the substance. Christian Liberty does not include consuming hard liquor, as Trueman freely admits he does. If Trueman has a "high view of God", then that view has not produced wisdom. He is a foolish man. When are "Bible-believing Christians" going to understand and teach the Bible instead of using cultural tradition to negate Biblical wisdom?

Wally Morris
Huntington, IN

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G. N. Barkman

NewWhy not make it simple?

Sat, 04/20/24

If you drink enough of any form or alcohol to get drunk, you have violated a prohibition of Scripture and have sinned. If you do not get drunk while drinking any form of alcohol, you have avoided the Biblical prohibition against drunkenness and have not sinned. With hard liquor, you can consume only a very small amount and remain within Scriptural guidelines. I fail to understand why Christians would choose to do that, but that's not my call.

I choose not to drink any alcohol, period, but that's my choice. I have as much liberty to refrain as another has liberty to consume carefully. I frankly do not want to chance crossing the line inadvertently, so I play it completely safe. I advise others to do the same. But my personal advice is just that--personal advice. I am not at liberty to make my decision a law to impose upon others. The Bible condemns adding to God's Word as much as it condemns subtracting from it.

I doubt that anyone has the warrant to question another's godliness because they choose to exercise a Christian liberty in a manner different from what I would. That's why it's called "liberty." We should be careful not to act like Pharisees. They were roundly condemned by Christ for adding to Scripture and imposing their additions upon others. Unless you have clear evidence that Carl Truman gets drunk, you have no Biblical warrant to condemn him for what he drinks. I'm sure he probably makes a number of choices that I would not make, but so what? Wally, you probably make some choices that I wouldn't make either, but as long as they do not violate a clear teaching of Scripture, I'm not going to fault you for your choices. I believe you are an intelligent, sincere, and honorable man. I will continue to believe that unless you demonstrate otherwise. I honestly believe I would enjoy getting to know you personally, if God should allow. Have a wonderful day, my brother.

G. N. Barkman

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dcbii

NewFood (drink?) for thought

Mon, 04/22/24

Deut 14:24-26 (ESV):

“And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.”

Before you go off into things like the “two wine theory” or other arguments about what strong drink existed or did not exist at the time Deuteronomy was written (something we can’t be 100% sure of anyway), I think we need to have something a lot stronger than theory to ignore (or explain away) the clear writing from scripture.

No matter whether you come down on the side of moderate drinking or abstinence (both clearly seen and modeled in the scriptures), you have to understand that given the entire scriptural record, some believers are going to take different positions on this issue legitimately. For myself personally, I disagree with both those who read the Bible and say “I have the freedom to drink whenever I want, and no one has anything to say about it,” as well as those who try to ignore or explain away the places where consumption of alcohol is mentioned in a positive sense. As Greg also mentioned, the scriptures prohibit adding to them as much as taking away from them. There are plenty of scriptures that we might find uncomfortable to our nice, clean system of belief, and yet they are there for our edification as much as the ones we usually love and cherish.

Dave Barnhart

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M. Osborne

NewChristian corollary to Godwin's Law?

Tue, 04/23/24

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a reference to alcoholic beverages approaches 1."

I suggest we stick to interacting with Trueman's point, which seems to be (1) it is possible for the church to speak prophetically to the political situation without becoming itself "political"; (2) we have to be heavenly minded to be of true earthly good.

Michael Osborne
Philadelphia, PA

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