The Bob Jones precedent could easily lead to the revocation of tax-exempt status for schools committed to traditional views of marriage and sexual morality

Even where I disagree with him, Carl Trueman is one of favorite authors to read. He always leaves me thinking. I agree that Christian institutions need to be prepared for the possibility of no federal funding. I just wonder what that will do to the Christian academic landscape. It seems like a lot of doctrinal distinctives will be obliterated as schools are eliminated or are forced to join with other schools. Praise God that He is sovereign.

[josh p]

I just wonder what that will do to the Christian academic landscape.

Perhaps the Christian academic landscape (specifically the ministerial training landscape) will need to develop a church-based model if Trueman’s predictions ever come true, or perhaps cooperative programs between churches. In the meantime, we should endeavor to invest in quality training. Should the time come that we ever need to adapt our model, it would be good to do so with skilled, qualified teachers / pastors / leaders in whatever paradigm(s) we develop.

Almost four years ago, I wrote about this topic at Proclaim and Defend: https://www.proclaimanddefend.org/2014/05/06/separation-of-church-and-s…

If we are indeed to make disciples—and I seem to remember God put that somewhere—then we ought to consider the possibility that churches should be growing their own elders and seriously infringing on the traditional territory of the Bible college. For that matter, we ought to be asking ourselves to what point this process ought to occur in church buildings, and what part ought to be more quietly done in private homes. I may be wrong here, but I have the sneaking suspicion that the church in the USA is not that far from needing to do things in house churches.

Mark Ward has shared some thoughtful and related perspective here.

That in 2018, people are finally catching up with John Marshall’s position during an 1819 court case…namely, the power to tax is the power to destroy.

Christians had better start preparing - now - for the loss of ministry training schools. It’s coming.\

edit - Wally Morris’ article on P&D was excellent. Thanks for linking to it, Wally.

[Bert Perry]

I may be wrong here, but I have the sneaking suspicion that the church in the USA is not that far from needing to do things in house churches.

I don’t see this at all. I do believe that churches will loose the level of freedom that they have been entitled to over the last couple of hundred years in the US, where legislating morality was the norm, but in very progressive societies like Sweden, churches don’t need to meet in homes. I think we sometimes view where the United States is heading is closer to China and North Korea instead of more like Europe.

There is another huge reason for churches to infringe on the traditional territory of the Bible colleges and even seminaries is that if done correctly, it changes church culture to one where pastors and deacons are challenged to not only get people to the altar rail (proverbially speaking) and into the baptismal, but into a position where they become “apt to teach”, and hence ready to start new churches—say those little house churches I was writing about.

It’s a great way to alter church culture in a very positive way, really—that works (h/t David) even if we’re moving more to a Scandinavian model than a Chinese model. (and even the Chinese model seems to allow for some fairly big “house church” buildings)

Bert,

You are correct, I believe, about the socialist European model as being the goal of the left vis-a-vis NK or China. As a Central grad (I believe) you are likely aware of the expense underwritten by 4th Baptist to keep the seminary going. I am aware of the expense ICBC has in underwriting DBTS. The numbers are large, very large. The viability of these church sponsored seminaries is tenuous. I think we should continue to fight for our religious liberty in America guaranteed to us by the US Constitution. I think you would agree. If we lose the fight, however, the situation will not be good for Christian Colleges, Seminaries, Day-Schools, Home-Schools. The left will go after the churches as well as the educational institutions. Our political involvement to help secure religious liberty is a necessity today. Liberty is lost when good men do nothing. It is not the main thing, but it is an important priority. We will not truly realize what we had nor appreciate the price paid for obtaining it, until it is gone. Once gone, we may never get it back. I am thankful for the temporary reprieve we are now enjoying. Will it last? Questionable!

Actually, I’m not a Central grad, nor have I ever been a student there—though I have been blessed a lot by the work & teaching of Dr. Bauder, Dr. Beacham, and more. Also, the comment on the Scandinavian model was David Szweda’s.

I’ll take a compliment or two, sure, but here I’m just not worthy. :^) Though I was at 4th last Friday (Deo Cantamus for kids #4 and #5) and was wondering what they’d do with the space if the seminary has to end—which of course I hope doesn’t happen. The bright side at 4th—something that I was never able to take advantage of—is that they’ve got at least the start of what I’d love to see through TCBI/Twin Cities BIble Institute.

Difficulty; you have to persuade people to learn things they already thought they knew. But I’d love to give it a try, or watch someone else do it.

Trump’s election may have stemmed the tide a bit, but the pulling of accreditation and tax exemption due to sexual discrimination will happen at the next swing of the political pendulum. When this happens, I feel there will be a value to 1 or 2 year regional unaccredited bible institute type schools. Costs could be scaled down because of common curriculum of attendees. When my son decided to pursue a major that was not offered by a Christian university, he decided to attend bible institute program for a year before he came back home to study his major at a state school and serve at our local church. It worked for him.

At what point will government encroach upon churches as well using 501(c)3 exempt nonprofit status as a basis? Will churches be able to adapt financially? For instance, if a church is saddled with extensive mortgage debt and / or owns sizable property and buildings, will they be able to afford these things if they withdraw from 501(c)3 exemption? At the very least, there is wisdom in giving this advance thought beforehand.

I hope no one is saying that revocation of tax-exempt status means the demise of an institution? BJU continued operating for 20 years after losing theirs.

BTW, the Internship Program at Capitol Hill Baptist Church seems to be a good model that has enjoyed success.

The idea of Pastor X Sr. keeping X Jr. at home under his father’s wing for training to be Sr.’s successor is a little scary to me.

[Ron Bean]

I hope no one is saying that revocation of tax-exempt status means the demise of an institution? BJU continued operating for 20 years after losing theirs.

BTW, the Internship Program at Capitol Hill Baptist Church seems to be a good model that has enjoyed success.

The idea of Pastor X Sr. keeping X Jr. at home under his father’s wing for training to be Sr.’s successor is a little scary to me.

Ron, your point is well taken. One thing that strikes me, though, is that BJU had some big advantages in survival that might not exist today. They were well established with twice the enrollment they have today, the fundamental school environment was far healthier, and I’d guess that the state tax exemption didn’t go as well. Now we could quibble (and probably should) about whether it’s “THE” thing that would kill a school, but I don’t know that it’s a little thing. You wouldn’t get killed with the income tax—nobody turns a profit these days, as Mike points out—and many donors aren’t going to be that worried about deductibility with the new limits in the tax code.

But that noted, the property tax could be killer—30,000 square feet at Central, for example, is ~ $6 million in value and probably $60k in taxes will be killer, and the sales tax on church items won’t be helpful, either.

[Bert Perry]

Ron Bean wrote:

I hope no one is saying that revocation of tax-exempt status means the demise of an institution? BJU continued operating for 20 years after losing theirs.

BTW, the Internship Program at Capitol Hill Baptist Church seems to be a good model that has enjoyed success.

The idea of Pastor X Sr. keeping X Jr. at home under his father’s wing for training to be Sr.’s successor is a little scary to me.

Ron, your point is well taken. One thing that strikes me, though, is that BJU had some big advantages in survival that might not exist today. They were well established with twice the enrollment they have today, the fundamental school environment was far healthier, and I’d guess that the state tax exemption didn’t go as well. Now we could quibble (and probably should) about whether it’s “THE” thing that would kill a school, but I don’t know that it’s a little thing. You wouldn’t get killed with the income tax—nobody turns a profit these days, as Mike points out—and many donors aren’t going to be that worried about deductibility with the new limits in the tax code.

But that noted, the property tax could be killer—30,000 square feet at Central, for example, is ~ $6 million in value and probably $60k in taxes will be killer, and the sales tax on church items won’t be helpful, either.