“I have been encouraged by what I am seeing among the next generation of Christ’s disciples.”

I appreciated Dave’s first message. Thanks, Dave!

A few observations:

1. Jack and David Hyles get an appropriate mention.
2. When contending for the faith, love the Lord more than you love the fight.
3. I wish BJU Vimeo would allow me to increase the playback speed to 1.5x.

Take some time and listen to the messages:

https://livestream.com/bju/bibleconf2022

I wish BJU Vimeo would allow me to increase the playback speed to 1.5x.

It does. Far lower right hand 3 dots.

[Larry]

I wish BJU Vimeo would allow me to increase the playback speed to 1.5x.

It does. Far lower right hand 3 dots.

I don’t see that on my screen. I just see the settings icon (to set playback video quality) and the fullscreen icon. Hmm.

I don’t see that on my screen. I just see the settings icon (to set playback video quality) and the fullscreen icon. Hmm.

Strange. Wonder if it is a browser thing. I am using Opera. I have the volume, the fullscreen, and three dots that has playback speed and picture in picture.

I just checked Chrome and it isn’t there. Hmmm … Another reason not to use Google.

I’ve been listening through his preaching through Jude on a road trip. Really enjoying it as well as the podcast.

After listening to Dave’s first message, I tried to see if I could find the sermon on Samson he referenced online anywhere. I couldn’t but there are several YouTube videos of Hyles preaching out there. I watched a couple of them and couldn’t believe how bad they were. He said the most outrageous stuff and everyone would amen it. I couldn’t believe people actually sat through it. That said, I remember listening to tapes of his in the past, back in my college days, but don’t remember them being as superficial and self-centered as the ones I just watched on YouTube. Maybe they were but I just didn’t notice it like I do now.

[AndyE]

After listening to Dave’s first message, I tried to see if I could find the sermon on Samson he referenced online anywhere. I couldn’t but there are several YouTube videos of Hyles preaching out there. I watched a couple of them and couldn’t believe how bad they were. He said the most outrageous stuff and everyone would amen it. I couldn’t believe people actually sat through it. That said, I remember listening to tapes of his in the past, back in my college days, but don’t remember them being as superficial and self-centered as the ones I just watched on YouTube. Maybe they were but I just didn’t notice it like I do now.

FWIW, here’s a link that plays portions of the sermon with someone’s interaction: https://youtu.be/R0vUGSrG5UQ

It’s crazy.

Like Andy, I suspect my tolerance for Hyles’ preaching is not what it once was, hopefully due to growth and more understanding. I heard Jack Hyles in person a number of times in Jr. High and High school, and don’t remember thinking there was anything wrong with his preaching then. If I were to hear those messages now, I shudder to think about what I would hear, as well as be appalled at my earlier self for lack of discernment. Then again, that’s why we grow and learn, and why we don’t seek out teens, even Christian ones, for their amazing wisdom.

Why did so many fundamentalists stay silent about Hyles for so long? His heretical preaching was public before the moral failures and yet those who were critical of Jerry Falwell, new evangelicalism, and CCM were relatively silent. When Voyle Glover and Robert Sumner pulled the turned the light on, they had a hard time finding supporters.

You won’t recognize bad preaching if you’re surrounded by bad preaching and told it’s good preaching. You can’t recognize bad preaching until you’re taught what good preaching actually is and why.

Unfortunately, this is true for many pastors as well. Many of the IFB preachers I’ve heard were either self-taught or a “preacher boy” who learned under another IFB pastor who didn’t know how to preach. Oh, the sermons were full of pathos (i.e. what passed for good preaching and received a lot of amens!), but the expository and theological content was horrendous. I remember the sermons were often full of a lot of spiritualizing, numerology, and diatribes. The biblical text was taken out of context and assigned a meaning that it was never meant to communicate. See Mark Ward’s comments about a recent KJV-only sermon he heard as an example of this kind of preaching.

[Ron Bean]

Why did so many fundamentalists stay silent about Hyles for so long? His heretical preaching was public before the moral failures and yet those who were critical of Jerry Falwell, new evangelicalism, and CCM were relatively silent. When Voyle Glover and Robert Sumner pulled the turned the light on, they had a hard time finding supporters.

Much has been written about this. I’d summarize it briefly this way:

1. Bad theology
2. Idol and “man of God” worship
3. Elijah complex
4. Fear of man / misguided loyalty
5. Legalism
6. Sequacious followers

[T Howard]

Ron Bean wrote:

Why did so many fundamentalists stay silent about Hyles for so long? His heretical preaching was public before the moral failures and yet those who were critical of Jerry Falwell, new evangelicalism, and CCM were relatively silent. When Voyle Glover and Robert Sumner pulled the turned the light on, they had a hard time finding supporters.

Much has been written about this. I’d summarize it briefly this way:

1. Bad theology
2. Idol and “man of God” worship
3. Elijah complex
4. Fear of man / misguided loyalty
5. Legalism
6. Sequacious followers

I agree but at the time when Hyles was prominent there was little if any criticism of him by most fundamentalists.

Can’t really engage very much, but two quick things:

1. Every group tends to miss the flaws of its big names on the inside (& that was my point in the sermon). This is not a problem unique to Fundamentalism. Visible success combined with not splitting our team has provided cover for lots of problems through the years. My view of it is that when we see this it should prompt self-reflection more than criticism. (Key = more, so not saying none).
2. My hope in writing the blog post was to rejoice over present hopeful signs. I sure hope this thread doesn’t descend into the quagmire that the last blog post of mine ended up spinning off into. I hope we can just rejoice over what seems to be a good work of God and not fall back into the same hobby horse critiques and defenses.

[Ron Bean] I agree but at the time when Hyles was prominent there was little if any criticism of him by most fundamentalists.

He had the largest bus ministry, Sunday school, and church in the world. His influence and control extended into almost every IFB group or affiliation. He was untouchable. If you questioned him or his methods, you were questioning “the man of God,” and you became the enemy. If you wanted to grow your own ministry reputation and influence in the IFB world, you had to kiss the ring.

But, let’s be honest. Hyles isn’t the only culprit here. BJU had its own share of issues and ring kissing as well. This kind of stuff was endemic in the IFB world. But like Dave says, many groups within Christianity struggle with this stuff as well.

[Dave Doran] My hope in writing the blog post was to rejoice over present hopeful signs. I sure hope this thread doesn’t descend into the quagmire that the last blog post of mine ended up spinning off into. I hope we can just rejoice over what seems to be a good work of God and not fall back into the same hobby horse critiques and defenses

I agree. I’m thankful for what God is doing in our midst.