If I were the girl’s father, I’d give serious consideration to doing bodily harm to David Hyles, and perhaps worse. I like to think I wouldn’t go through with it. But, I’d consider it - even if for a few moments. There is a special place in the lake of fire for clergy who abuse their positions in this way.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
This goes back to 70s, if every person this kind of thing happened to in a ministry that large, that seemed not to have dealt with such things, the church could be facing a slew of civil suits for years to come.
If I were the girl’s father, I’d give serious consideration to doing bodily harm to David Hyles, and perhaps worse. I like to think I wouldn’t go through with it. But, I’d consider it - even if for a few moments. There is a special place in the lake of fire for clergy who abuse their positions in this way.
As well should any red-blooded dad who loves his kids want to do. Instead, this girl’s father, according to the lawsuit itself, negotiated a long-term employment contract for himself with Dave’s father. Dave was sent off to Miller Road in Texas to continue working his “magic” and Joy was simply collateral damage. (Note: I actually know this family.) And this is just the very tip of the iceberg. The entire place should be leveled.
My take is that 1st Baptist of Hammond has turned the corner under new leadership
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I would not consider it a “turned corner” until they stop deifying Hyles which is still the current state there. They’ve never come clean about the rampant sexual sin, the covering of the same and the system and philosophy that propagated it. (Which is only a single facet of their over-all dysfunction.) This is a ministry built on a celebrity cult leader — plain and simple. Until that has been renounced, the corner hasn’t been turned, in my opinion.
The statutes of limitations for civil actions on sexual assult of a child (e.g. this) are not that long, so what the plaintiff is doing is to make the claim that because the church worked to hide David Hyles’ (and others’) actions, that RICO applies.
I don’t know whether this one will set a precedent, but if it does, let’s just say that it’s not just the Hyles orbit that needs to keep this in mind. Similar sets of evidence exist for the ABWE/Ketcham case, the SGM case, and others. Hint; if your church has swept things under the rug, now might be a really good time to start making amends and start volunteering to help victims become as whole as possible.
The statutes of limitations for civil actions on sexual assult of a child (e.g. this) are not that long, so what the plaintiff is doing is to make the claim that because the church worked to hide David Hyles’ (and others’) actions, that RICO applies.
I don’t know whether this one will set a precedent, but if it does, let’s just say that it’s not just the Hyles orbit that needs to keep this in mind. Similar sets of evidence exist for the ABWE/Ketcham case, the SGM case, and others. Hint; if your church has swept things under the rug, now might be a really good time to start making amends and start volunteering to help victims become as whole as possible.
The predicates to a RICO claim are usually pretty difficult to establish, especially outside the organized crime context, so it should be interesting.
and realized there was something wrong with him. I pretty much ignore him, his ministry, and anything associated with it. I’d call it a cult, or at least as close as you can get without being one.
When I think of “fundamentalist” I NEVER MEAN HIM OR ANYTHING LIKE HIM.
If I went into a meeting with a pastor to report sustained rape, and he offered me a “lucrative” job to cover it up, I’d hit his face so hard he’d never forget it. Yep, I said it. Fleshly, yes. Would I regret it after his son abused my daughter for 2 years? Not one bit.
I grew up 30 miles away from First Baptist, and regarding whether a father would accept the job or beat the snot (or other bodily excretion) out of Hyles (both of ‘em), one thing worth noting is that times were tough in the area then. Japanese steel was coming in, steelworkers were being laid off, Gary was quickly going downhill, and having steady work would have been a powerful temptation to someone worried about keeping his home and not having to live in Gary.
Combine that with a powerful cult of personality on Hyles’ part, as well as a general reluctance by the police to prosecute these things that my family observed a year or two later (my neighbor was molested), and you can understand why Joy’s father made that choice. You might also have “he didn’t understand the impact of rape on a young woman”. I also would like to believe I’d have made a different choice, but there are a few reasons that would have been seen as powerful to someone back then.
Per dmyers’ comment, agreed on RICO. It’s tough for a reason. That said, tremendously interesting strategy; whatever the result, I hope it wakes churches up to their responsibility to handle these things well.
When the whole Jack Hyles/David Hyles/First Baptist cess pool was being uncovered in 1989-91, including deacons abusing and covering for leadership, Voyle Glover and his paper, The Biblical Evangelist, was the only one shouting a warning publicly. As I recall the majority of fundamentalism talked about it privately, but left me with the impression that they were hoping it would just go away eventually. It didn’t. We were public on our denunciation of Billy Graham, New Evangeliclism, and John MacArthur and the Blood, but I don’t recall a single public published condemnation of Hyles or even support for Glover.There was that attitude of “That’s him but not us!”
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
Discussion
NewHorrifying
If I were the girl’s father, I’d give serious consideration to doing bodily harm to David Hyles, and perhaps worse. I like to think I wouldn’t go through with it. But, I’d consider it - even if for a few moments. There is a special place in the lake of fire for clergy who abuse their positions in this way.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
NewWill it never end?
Will the legacy of this dysfunctionally-led ministry never end?
"The Midrash Detective"
NewThis goes back to 70s, if
This goes back to 70s, if every person this kind of thing happened to in a ministry that large, that seemed not to have dealt with such things, the church could be facing a slew of civil suits for years to come.
NewTylerR wrote:
As well should any red-blooded dad who loves his kids want to do. Instead, this girl’s father, according to the lawsuit itself, negotiated a long-term employment contract for himself with Dave’s father. Dave was sent off to Miller Road in Texas to continue working his “magic” and Joy was simply collateral damage. (Note: I actually know this family.) And this is just the very tip of the iceberg. The entire place should be leveled.
NewDLCreed
That is very sad. I don’t understand how it can be rationalized.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
NewMy take is that 1st Baptist of Hammond has ...
My take is that 1st Baptist of Hammond has turned the corner under new leadership
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewBut HA College should remove this
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewJim wrote:
I would not consider it a “turned corner” until they stop deifying Hyles which is still the current state there. They’ve never come clean about the rampant sexual sin, the covering of the same and the system and philosophy that propagated it. (Which is only a single facet of their over-all dysfunction.) This is a ministry built on a celebrity cult leader — plain and simple. Until that has been renounced, the corner hasn’t been turned, in my opinion.
NewInteresting new approach
The statutes of limitations for civil actions on sexual assult of a child (e.g. this) are not that long, so what the plaintiff is doing is to make the claim that because the church worked to hide David Hyles’ (and others’) actions, that RICO applies.
I don’t know whether this one will set a precedent, but if it does, let’s just say that it’s not just the Hyles orbit that needs to keep this in mind. Similar sets of evidence exist for the ABWE/Ketcham case, the SGM case, and others. Hint; if your church has swept things under the rug, now might be a really good time to start making amends and start volunteering to help victims become as whole as possible.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
NewBert Perry wrote:
The predicates to a RICO claim are usually pretty difficult to establish, especially outside the organized crime context, so it should be interesting.
NewI read one Jack Hyles book
and realized there was something wrong with him. I pretty much ignore him, his ministry, and anything associated with it. I’d call it a cult, or at least as close as you can get without being one.
When I think of “fundamentalist” I NEVER MEAN HIM OR ANYTHING LIKE HIM.
NewI feel sorry for this woman
If I went into a meeting with a pastor to report sustained rape, and he offered me a “lucrative” job to cover it up, I’d hit his face so hard he’d never forget it. Yep, I said it. Fleshly, yes. Would I regret it after his son abused my daughter for 2 years? Not one bit.
I don’t understand these “men.”
Definitely a cult, not a church.
NewOn beating the snot out of Hyles
I grew up 30 miles away from First Baptist, and regarding whether a father would accept the job or beat the snot (or other bodily excretion) out of Hyles (both of ‘em), one thing worth noting is that times were tough in the area then. Japanese steel was coming in, steelworkers were being laid off, Gary was quickly going downhill, and having steady work would have been a powerful temptation to someone worried about keeping his home and not having to live in Gary.
Combine that with a powerful cult of personality on Hyles’ part, as well as a general reluctance by the police to prosecute these things that my family observed a year or two later (my neighbor was molested), and you can understand why Joy’s father made that choice. You might also have “he didn’t understand the impact of rape on a young woman”. I also would like to believe I’d have made a different choice, but there are a few reasons that would have been seen as powerful to someone back then.
Per dmyers’ comment, agreed on RICO. It’s tough for a reason. That said, tremendously interesting strategy; whatever the result, I hope it wakes churches up to their responsibility to handle these things well.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
NewA Lesson from Back Then
When the whole Jack Hyles/David Hyles/First Baptist cess pool was being uncovered in 1989-91, including deacons abusing and covering for leadership, Voyle Glover and his paper, The Biblical Evangelist, was the only one shouting a warning publicly. As I recall the majority of fundamentalism talked about it privately, but left me with the impression that they were hoping it would just go away eventually. It didn’t. We were public on our denunciation of Billy Graham, New Evangeliclism, and John MacArthur and the Blood, but I don’t recall a single public published condemnation of Hyles or even support for Glover.There was that attitude of “That’s him but not us!”
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
NewRelevant Quotation
Quoted in the Kokomo Tribune today:
“Hero-worship is strongest where there is least regard for human freedom.”
HERBERT SPENCER
British philosopher (1820-1903)
"The Midrash Detective"