By Jim on
Society & Culture
Wayne Grudem
Donald Trump

As a professor who has taught Christian ethics for 39 years, I think their analysis is incorrect. Now that Trump has won the GOP nomination, I think voting for Trump is a morally good choice.

Discussion

Fri, 07/29/16

….is somewhat in between. I agree that Trump has shown some dangerously narcissistic traits, and I’ve half wondered if he was a Clinton plant to begin with—most other GOP candidates would have beaten Clinton handily, but for Trump, it’s a battle. But that said, his nasty traits have a redeeming factor; a large number of GOP legislators simply hate his guts. Hence, if he gets too out of line, impeachment and removal from office is likely.

Contrast that with the Democrats, where we know for a fact that perjury and obstruction of justice are not sufficient to get votes to remove from office, and arguably politicization of the FBI, DOJ, BATFE, State Department, and IRS are not, either.

Which is a long way of saying that a Trump presidency would, ironically through his narcissism, work quite a bit to re-establish the Constitutional jealousy that is the strength of our system. Weird, but I think true.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Fri, 07/29/16

Simply do not vote for any of the candidates. I am not saying that is my personal option, but it is an option, nonetheless.

I’m fairly certain there is no scriptural mandate for a Christian to vote.

Ashamed of Jesus! of that Friend On whom for heaven my hopes depend! It must not be! be this my shame, That I no more revere His name. -Joseph Grigg (1720-1768)

Sat, 07/30/16

I see voting as a matter of stewardship. Christian Stewardship requires that we utilize everything we have been given for the honor of Christ. If I have been given financial resources, I must use them for Christ as a good Steward, managing them to best advantage for Him. Likewise with talents, time, opportunities, etc. First Century Christians did not have voting rights, hence could not use them for Christ. We do. They have been given to us as a stewardship. Since God has bestowed them upon us, we are obligated to use them for His glory.

G. N. Barkman

Sat, 07/30/16

I think Dr. Grudem is letting his conservative politics shape his evaluation of Mr. Trump. He sees virtues that simply don’t exist in the man. He has “bought the con” as they say. He upholds Trump’s crafted image as though it is real. “Tough as nails”? Hardly. He is obsessed with himself, views everything as it relates to him. He is the textbook definition of the biblical fool. I know most of his schtick is an act, but I am not at all sure he is mentally stable. I will not vote for him.

Sat, 07/30/16

[G. N. Barkman]

I see voting as a matter of stewardship. Christian Stewardship requires that we utilize everything we have been given for the honor of Christ. If I have been given financial resources, I must use them for Christ as a good Steward, managing them to best advantage for Him. Likewise with talents, time, opportunities, etc. First Century Christians did not have voting rights, hence could not use them for Christ. We do. They have been given to us as a stewardship. Since God has bestowed them upon us, we are obligated to use them for His glory.

Is running for a public office also a matter of Christian stewardship? Since we have the right to do so in this country, and that right has been given us as a stewardship, are we required to do so for God’s glory?

Sat, 07/30/16

Running for office requires talents, resources, knowledge, and experience that are not given to every Christian. Voting requires little more than making a prayerfully informed decision and showing up at the polls, something that virtually every Christian can do. If God gives the necessary resources, inclination, and freedom from other obligations, I think running for office could be included in the stewardship responsibilities of some Christians.

G. N. Barkman

Sat, 07/30/16

[G. N. Barkman]

Running for office requires talents, resources, knowledge, and experience that are not given to every Christian. Voting requires little more than making a prayerfully informed decision and showing up at the polls, something that virtually every Christian can do. If God gives the necessary resources, inclination, and freedom from other obligations, I think running for office could be included in the stewardship responsibilities of some Christians.

If running for office requires “talents, resources, knowledge, and experience,” then I have to look for those things in the candidate for whom I vote. If I cannot, in good conscience, support either of the main candidates, then my “prayerfully informed decision” to abstain from voting would be fulfilling my stewardship responsibilities, wouldn’t it? I’ll certainly be open to God giving me an “inclination” to vote, but at some point, a person’s flaws become so great that he or she is not qualified to be in the office, and I don’t know how I would justify to myself voting for either one of those unqualified people to be in office.

Sat, 07/30/16

Very glad to hear you also believe that not everyone should vote. ;)

Ashamed of Jesus! of that Friend On whom for heaven my hopes depend! It must not be! be this my shame, That I no more revere His name. -Joseph Grigg (1720-1768)

Sat, 07/30/16

Despite the question of Trump’s character, Grudem’s point about the Supreme Court being the real law makers in our country is accurate. And, if Trump appointed people from his list, that would be a major triumph.

Anyone care to comment on that point? I think it is the crux of the article.

"The Midrash Detective"

Sat, 07/30/16

[Ed Vasicek]

Despite the question of Trump’s character, Grudem’s point about the Supreme Court being the real law makers in our country is accurate. And, if Trump appointed people from his list, that would be a major triumph.

Anyone care to comment on that point? I think it is the crux of the article.

Just as we would oppose people from Hillary’s list, the Democrats would oppose people from Trump’s list. Trump doesn’t have nearly the conservative leanings as I would hope, so I expect a few other names would get added to the list that the Dems would be more likely to support. And who knows if the people on the current list would even stay conservative?

Sat, 07/30/16

Can you fulfill your financial stewardship responsibilities by refraining from giving? Can you fulfill your evangelistic responsibilities by refraining from witnessing? Or do you find effective ways to fulfill these and other stewardship responsibilities when the first and most obvious manner of fulfillment is closed?

G. N. Barkman

Sat, 07/30/16

So let’s assume you are correct, and that a wise steward will always vote. That brings us back to the question of how to vote. It is impossible to prove that a Christian must vote for Trump in order to keep Hillary out of office. Our next president is not our choice anyway, it is God’s - he will ensure the correct person is put in office in accordance with his plans. So who we vote for is a moot point.

Ashamed of Jesus! of that Friend On whom for heaven my hopes depend! It must not be! be this my shame, That I no more revere His name. -Joseph Grigg (1720-1768)

Sat, 07/30/16

[G. N. Barkman]

Can you fulfill your financial stewardship responsibilities by refraining from giving? Can you fulfill your evangelistic responsibilities by refraining from witnessing?

Can you fulfill your environmental stewardship by refraining from littering? Absolutely.

In my opinion, a vote for Trump would be a “litter” vote. Littering is when you take an object that is useful in one context, say a paper plate at a picnic, and put it somewhere it doesn’t belong, say in a ditch by the side of the road. Voting for Trump is taking a useful business man (and even that is debatable), and putting him where he doesn’t belong. Even if everyone else were to start littering, that doesn’t mean I have to join in.