By Jim on
Church & Ministry
Jack Schaap
Dave Doran: Stuff Fundies Should Hate Stuff Fundies Like: Jack Schaap: Insane Heretical Book Edition

Discussion

Fri, 10/15/10
There are still way too many people who have a very superficial knowledge of the false doctrines and practices that have come out of Hammond for decades, and they do not understand why anyone would not recommend any of Hyles’ or Schaap’s messages or books, or the college. I guess the only thing to do is to continue to sound the warning and hope that folks will do some research and verification of their own.

Scenescape Media

Fri, 10/15/10
I grew up around alot of the Hoorahism of Hyles et al (70’s and 80’s) but felt completely ambivalent about the man and his ministry, in spite of the fact that many churches in our area used their materials and methods. There are probably many who feel the same ambivalence today- they aren’t on the bandwagon but they aren’t aware of anything particularly wrong with Hyles’ preaching or books.

Then there’s the pragmatic crowd- as you say, Jim- that are all about the successful methods and excuse false teaching and misconduct with “Look at all of the wonderful things he did”, as if good works or intentions cancel out the rest.

Scenescape Media

Fri, 10/15/10
Can someone please tell me why Schaap is even interesting in the first place?

I continue to be amazed at the following that this man draws, in light of all the blatantly weird (and I’m being kind) things that come from Hammond.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

Fri, 10/15/10
[Jay C.] Can someone please tell me why Schaap is even interesting in the first place?

I continue to be amazed at the following that this man draws, in light of all the blatantly weird (and I’m being kind) things that come from Hammond.
To the first question, if you have a website devoted to Fundamentalism, you can’t really report just the parts that you like.

To the second, I’d simply suggest that people’s belief options are very limited until they encounter alternatives in within an environment that makes them plausible. People’s belief choices have little(or at least less than we’d like to admit) to do with what is inherently rational or true.

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Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin

Fri, 10/15/10
Charlie answered you but I will briefly respond as well.

This link about Hyles is just a bit (understating) over the top in my view (the last two paragraphs)

http://www.allaboutbaptists.com/history_Jack_Hyles.html

But this section speaks of his influence:
Not only did Hyles take over a rather flamboyant ministry supported by the elite of the city but one that was tied into a convention that he thought to be too liberal for his fundamentalist views. His approach was simple. He went to work winning every lost soul to Christ that he and his assistant pastor could find. In a relatively short time, His new congregation out-numbered the original membership. A showdown vote took place and Hyles’ group came out victorious. From that day to this, the church has been a beacon of fundamentalism. He saw it continue to grow to over 100,000 in attendance with some 50,000 baptisms during his last five years of ministry.
The church has been known for having what has been proclaimed as the “World’s Largest Sunday School.” It was Hyles who also brought the concept of purchasing large numbers of used school busses to transport children to Sunday School. His 37 annual week-long “Pastor’s School” were a powerful venue to share his philosophy of church growth. As a result, thousands of pastors took his ideas back to their churches and many went on to experience unusual growth. Hardly a fundamental Baptist church could be found that did not have either a few or a whole fleet of busses.
Hyles was also a promoter of the Christian school movement. He founded the Hyles-Anderson College and Hammond Baptist Schools. Both of these educational ministries continue to graduate well prepared young people who are more than ready to serve God and country.
Jack Schaap, Hyles’ successor, is a major player (like it or not) in fundamentalism!

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Jim's Doctrinal Statement

Fri, 10/15/10
Why do certain seemingly sound fundamentalists prominent in FBF circles even give this nut the time of day?

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

Fri, 10/15/10
That is a question that I have asked alot and have not gotten an answer to it.

Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church

Fri, 10/15/10
[Ron Bean] Why do certain seemingly sound fundamentalists prominent in FBF circles even give this nut the time of day?
http://www.sharperiron.org/filings/3-24-10/14345] Together for the Gospel: Jack Schaap & John Vaughn ?

http://paleoevangelical.blogspot.com/2010/03/fracture-or-more-theologic… Fracture or (More) Theological Reductionism: Fundamentalism’s Choice

http://gloryandgrace.dbts.edu/?p=290] Can Two Walk Together…

And young fundamentalists wonder!

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Jim's Doctrinal Statement

Sat, 10/16/10
It’s not just the young fundamentalists, Jim. I know of some who see this and simply say, “If that’s fundamentalism, I’m outta here.” It amazes me how they can raise their eyebrows over Mahaney (gifts), Dever (Calvinism/polity), MacArthur (The Blood),and Piper (inviting Warren) and hardly blink at Schaap (nutcase).

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

Sat, 10/16/10
If you are conservative/traditional in your music, your men wear suits/ties/pocket hankies/tapers, and your women wear frumpy dresses/skirts, you are well on your way to being accepted among many Fundies regardless of your heretical teachings. LOL!

In all seriousness, those Fundies who are cultural fundamentalists will dismiss a lot as long as the outward appearance fits their idea of what a “good Christian” looks like.

Matthew Richards

Sat, 10/16/10
My dad attended Hyles Pastor’s School in the mid 1970’s; he has no time for it now. His observation was that Hyles (and evidently Schaap now) would take very unusual interpretations of texts (saying something like: “Most people don’t see this in this verse, but this verse is saying…”) in order to impress his followers with his spiritual insight. “If this guy is seeing things that we don’t, then maybe we should listen to him.” Schaap seems to be following the same game plan. Thankfully, even the most hard-core, right-winger sees the nonsense in statements like Schaap has made since he has pastored that church.

Sat, 10/16/10
[Matthew Richards] In all seriousness, those Fundies who are cultural fundamentalists will dismiss a lot as long as the outward appearance fits their idea of what a “good Christian” looks like.
I think your comment is just propaganda. This is not true of all who you would describe as ‘cultural fundamentalists’. In fact, I would bet that it is not true of most.

Might be better to use real arguments than try to lump everyone who disagrees with you in with one nut case.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3