“L.A. County requires places of worship to report to the Public Health Department when there are at least three COVID-19 cases within a span of two weeks, after which the agency determines whether there is an outbreak. GCC did not respond to a request for comment by press time.” - C.Post
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NewI thought Julie Roys
I thought Julie Roys specialized in exposing evangelical scandals that needed to see the light of day so evangelicalism reform itself. What does this piece of news have to do with that?
NewSpecialized?
I don’t know who Roys is, but I don’t think specializing in A means you can’t know anything about B.
In this case, if she’s an evangelical misdeeds whistleblower, it makes sense. JMac and GCC decided to make a very conspicuous public display of the nobility of their COVID health order defiance. By doing so, they made anybody getting sick with COVID there news, especially if it’s widespread and being covered up.
Or the whole thing could be bogus.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
NewIsn't it a scandal?
If indeed staffers at GCC are hiding the reality of COVID to keep the doors open, and are thus endangering their older members, wouldn’t that be a scandal? Seems right up her alley.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
NewA difficult spot
It must be very hard, when you have said it’s the flu, and it is not that dangerous, and you don’t need any preventative safety measures because people are free to come or not, and you have become a hero to many and are loudly applauded whenever you talk about it in church, and you declare publicly you are standing alone as your friends have abandoned you – to stop and say, “Well, this is worse than we thought.” That would take great courage and humility.
NewImportant to remember: The
Important to remember: The virus is dangerous for some people and presents a genuine risk to certain people. However, that does not mean the gov’t is right in every regulation it implements. Just as churches have a moral duty to protect people’s health, churches also have a moral duty to resist and oppose gov’t requirements which they believe are wrong. I find it interesting that Christians who are so quick to use “Christian liberty” as the justification for so many choices, those same Christians are quick to criticize Christians who oppose some of the gov’t requirements concerning the virus.
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
NewWallyMorris wrote: I find it
That’s because you’re comparing two situations which are not similar. The typical Christian liberty issue doesn’t involve a question of disobeying / defying government authority in the exercise of said Christian liberty (e.g. drinking alcohol, smoking cigars, etc.).
NewI hope this isn’t true. If it
NewHere's why it happens
My wife and I were discussing this today—COVID is going through our house, thankfully so far without huge effects. At least four of the seven people here have had it, as evidence by virus tests, loss of sense of smell, and the like.
What we’ve seen regarding the virus is that in MN, everything was shut down at a time when almost all of the fatal cases were occurring in nursing homes, and most people simply do not understand why their lives had to hit the pause button when it was the nursing homes where people were dying—and the leaders were sending sick patients back there with horrific results.
Shift that to churches, and it’s simply that people are fatigued of the shutdowns, and refusing to tell authorities about COVID cases is one way to show a passive aggressive response. It’s not something to brag about, but that’s the psychology of what’s going on to a degree.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
NewJust because 2 situations are
Just because 2 situations are not similar does not mean that, to some extent, the “Christian liberty defense” can’t be used. Perhaps you are confusing Principle and Application. Part of the Christian liberty argument is that, where the Bible is vague in some applications, we have the “Christian liberty” to apply Biblical principles differently. Seems that’s exactly what some in the debate about the virus, gov’t regulations, 1st Amendment guarantees, and Biblical teaching/commands about worship are saying.
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
NewThe church continues to
The church continues to obfiscate the issue by focusing on the fact that 99.8% of the people survive COVID. The issue has never been the death rate, even though COVID is now the 3rd leading cause of death in the US for most age groups and the 2nd leading cause of death for some age groups, despite only being in the US in March. With that said, the issue is the overcrowding of hospitals and stress on the medical system.
https://laist.com/latest/post/20201217/icu-capacity-runs-out-socal-coro…
The issue is that as COVID spikes and consumes medical resources, doctors and beds, that this now cascades to other conditions as individuals are not able to get appropriate medical treatment for their condition. LA is currently out of control right now.
NewLiberty argument... true but not valid
It’s true that where Scripture is ambiguous, believers must make up their own minds… and then there are the ambiguities of application.
But a question that is “a matter of liberty” is not a question that is unimportant or beyond criticism.
In this case, whether to defy the powers that be in light of Romans 13 is certainly not trivial, liberty or not.
I would argue that there is no ambiguity in the text and rarely any real ambiguity in application either. But even if there was, that doesn’t make it off limits to criticism, especially when you post a petition and encourage other churches to join you in your defiance, as GCC did. (It’s still there, too https://www.gracechurch.org/news/posts/1988 )
In their defense, a person wasn’t dying of COVID every ten minutes in LA County at the time, as I hear they are now. Still, is defiance of efforts to protect everyone’s lives (whether those efforts are ‘consistent’ and effective or not) really what a church wants to be known for in its community? … seems unwise and wrong.
Edit: The restrictions have been lifted as of last week some time. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-21/church-ban-county-s…
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
NewWhy are we so interested
in criticizing what other churches do? Are you their master?
Focus on yourself. Jesus is their Lord, not you.
Move on.
NewDon't the FB posts contradict the premise that ...
Don’t the FB posts contradict the premise that … “staff pressured to keep silent”?
Will Varner posted on FB that he has COVID … he’s on staff!
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewAlready answered
JMac and GCC decided to go on a public “church defiance of COVID health orders” crusade. Representatives spoke on national news outlets. They posted a petition. They made it everybody’s business.
They presented themselves as a national model of heroic faithful defiance.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
NewLook at the epistles
Mark, a great portion of the epistles of the New Testament consists of the apostles’ rebukes of churches. Were they in the wrong to do so?
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.