California Tax Bill Seeks to Punish Scouts for Gay Ban

Forget about the scouts, what about all of the churches? Loss of state tax exemption means churches paying taxes on giving as well as property taxes. There’s also the Catholic hospitals. Talk about a huge hit all of a sudden!

Technically youth groups don’t have any “members” per say, and churches should be opening their arms to any youth who want to attend, although it would be clear that if they chose to attend their lifestyle would not be approved and it would be spoken against. and if there were issues with their flaunting of their lifestyle they may be asked to leave.

The bigger issue is for leaders, obviously.

But on the other hand isn’t it the governments prerogative to do what they wish as far as tax exemption? Should not the giver of financial freedoms have some sort of say in what they want from those to whom they allow to keep money? Not saying I approve of what they are doing in California, but I think we need to come to the realization that in a secular world we will need to make some sacrifices. Tax exemption is not a right that we as local churches somehow deserve. It is something that we enjoyed, but shouldn’t expect to keep.

I think again here, that there is some merit to the traditional Baptist view of separation of church and state.

Paynen wrote: …the giver of financial freedoms…

Funny, I was still under the impression that freedom was a right, not gift and that the government was servant of the people not master. Once was subscribe to the government as the bestower of our rights instead of the protector of our rights, we succumb to tyranny.

[Chip Van Emmerik]

Paynen wrote: …the giver of financial freedoms…

Funny, I was still under the impression that freedom was a right, not gift and that the government was servant of the people not master. Once was subscribe to the government as the bestower of our rights instead of the protector of our rights, we succumb to tyranny.

Ditto. I troubles me that so many people (self included) so often talk like this country is divided into separate groups of “the people” and “the government”. The people are the government. At least that’s the way it was supposed to be…

It seems the thinking here might be exactly backwards. The right is for private entities to keep their money, not for the government to seize it. My history students (and frequently my adult friends) are always amazed to learn that up until about 100 years ago with the passing of the 16th amendment, Americans, every one of them, had absolute discretion over every single penny they had. The government, with the permission of the citizens, identified certain places where taxes would be levied, such as on property, and each citizen had the choice whether or not to spend their money in that arena and be taxed voluntarily. I teach my students a simple principle that has been floating around the airwaves this week a lot in a quote by Margaret Thatcher, which is that there is no such thing as government (or public as Thatcher called it) money, there is only the people’s money.

Great comments Chip. Thank you for standing up for the church, freedom, a proper understanding of the US Constitution, and against the tyranny of the left. This is only the beginning of what will be an unrelenting assault upon people who love decency, God, the church, and the gospel. Get ready. It is coming with a vengeance by the militant pagans on the left.

Regarding taxation: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other peoples’ money” by Margaret Thatcher.

By that reasoning, the government can steal all of our money. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama—that’s how they think. Clearly the left is abusing the US tax code to punish good and reward evil–and that is evil!!! Jesus was speaking of personal tax responsibility and not giving the government the power to potentially tax the church out of existence. The US constitution does not give the government the right to tax church property or the donations to the church. We are a nation of laws, not of men. The laws are subject to the US constitution as originally written and properly interpreted in the federalist papers. The left act as if they are imperialistic kings and Russian czars, persecuting and punishing all those who don’t heed their anti-God agenda.

Paynen:

Where do you stand on this particular issue? It is well and good to issue philosophical proclamations about the role of government and the origin of printed currency. Enough of this - where do you stand on the issue and what will you do in your sphere of influence to encourage change consistent with Biblical principles?

There is a time for being an aloof and dispassionate observer. There is also a time for action.

I think I was fairly clear. I enjoy the benefits of the Church being tax exempt. Yet it is not our right according to any document or view. Our responsibility is to follow the law in regards to taxes, fair or not. That was clearly Christ’s teaching, and it applies directly to this situation. Christ was being questioned basically God or Man in regards to finances. Render unto God what is God’s and render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser’s. I am a libertarian. I am opposed to strong government influence and high government spending. Yet, you must also ask yourself what right does a church have to be tax exempt? Any supporting answer would more then likely break true separation of church and state, which as a Baptist I find of utmost importance. What right do we have to “our” money, without the government saying it is our right to it? Money is just a symbol of how the government applies worth to the efforts of individuals. Money in truth is owned and controlled by the government. I would prefer a government that taxes fairly and conservatively, and I will vote to that end. But claiming a right to something that doesn’t really actually belong to you is a bit of a misunderstanding of how economy and capitalism actually works.

Paynen:

I’m not asking about your philosophy of government. I don’t care about your philosophy of government. I am talking about real world decisions and stands you will be called to make.

I don’t know if you are in a leadership position at your church or not. Suppose you are a Pastor. A church member comes to you;

“Pastor, have you heard that they want to get rid of the Boy Scout’s tax exempt status in California because of their stand on homosexuality!? What is happening to this country!? What about God’s standards!?”

You say:

I enjoy the benefits of the Church being tax exempt. Yet it is not our right according to any document or view. Our responsibility is to follow the law in regards to taxes, fair or not. That was clearly Christ’s teaching, and it applies directly to this situation.

Member says:

Pastor, are you saying Christians shouldn’t speak out on bills like this which attack an organization’s stand for God’s law?!

You say … what? I want to know what your answer is to this church member.

Could you do my taxes next year … !?