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http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/u-s-republicans-submit-re… ]”U.S. Representative Joe Walsh (R-IL), introduced on Monday a resolution (with 30 co-sponsors) to support Israel’s right to annex the West Bank in the event that the Palestinian Authority continues to push for vote at the United Nations.”

Discussion

Tue, 09/20/11
[Jim Peet]

  • Annexing the West Bank would not be wise
  • The US should stay out of this
  • I personally support the right of the Palestinians to have a state
So, help me out. My history background can be sorely lacking, and one of the problems I face is figuring out who to read to get the full story of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. So, first, can you steer me to good and reliable sources to read, from either side of the debate. Second, did the Palestinians technically have a state of some sort with either the British Mandate or the U.N. Resolution? I heard a radio commentator say that they did, but that they wanted more, and so the debate began. I trust the commentator, yet he still leans a particular direction politically.

Sorry if these are basic questions. My high school history teacher had me calculating baseball statistics for him during history class. Back then, he had to be a teacher to be able to coach. :) So I try to read what I can to catch myself up, and this is one of those topics that is so politically and emotionally charged that it is hard to discern what’s what.

Tue, 09/20/11
I should add, when I said “I trust the commentator”, I meant in general, yet a statement like that needs some verification as I see it.

Tue, 09/20/11
[Jim Peet]

  • Annexing the West Bank would not be wise
  • The US should stay out of this
  • I personally support the right of the Palestinians to have a state
You may be right on your first point, but your other two I have to disagree. Palestine historically has never been a country, just a region. They have no more right to become a nation as say Appalachia does. Also, why should the UN admit membership to a nation that doesn’t respect the existence of an existing UN nation?

The US needs to be involved in the Middle East for as much the safety of the arabs, not just Israel. Don’t underestimate what Israel will do if it feels like it’s cornered…

Tue, 09/20/11
Who said:
So, help me out. My history background can be sorely lacking, and one of the problems I face is figuring out who to read to get the full story of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
The issue is typically dealt with at a very simplistic level that goes like this: The Jews are God’s chosen people … He restored them to the land according to Biblical prophecy … it all belongs to them and … we don’t care about the other folk (who call themselves Palestinians)

The issue gets very emotional (and hateful) on the part of many - Many examples abound - example Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Just a sampling: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.9fb00f626c815dbdf828c671ccf…
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad slammed Zionism as “occupation” and “aggression” Tuesday as he delivered his latest diatribe against the Jewish state on a visit to key Middle East ally Syria.
“The Zionist occupiers are destructive microbes, because Zionism itself is occupation, aggression, the use of assassination and annihilation,” he told a joint news conference with President Bashar al-Assad in the Syrian capital.

“Zionism was created to threaten us. To support the Palestinian resistance is a humanitarian and popular obligation,” Ahmadinejad said in remarks in Farsi that were translated into Arabic.

“Syria and Iran are united in supporting the Palestinian resistance.”

The Iranian president’s comments came barely two weeks after he sparked a European walkout from a UN anti-racism conference in Geneva by equating Zionism with racism.

He has gone further in the past, predicting that the Jewish state is doomed to be wiped from the map and describing the Holocaust as a myth.
Helpful Wiki articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917] Balfour Declaration of 1917

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine] British Mandate for Palestine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan] United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War] 1948 Arab–Israeli War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1949_Armistice_Agreements] 1949 Armistice Agreements

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War] Six-Day War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-Egypt_Peace_Treaty] Egypt–Israel Peace Treaty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords] Oslo Accords

Two more articles that I find helpful

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/09/05/world/middleeast/challeng… Challenges in Defining an Israeli-Palestinian Border

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/09/12/opinion/mapping-mideast-p… Mapping Mideast Peace

Twitter

Jim's Doctrinal Statement

Tue, 09/20/11
The reason why the U.S. won’t stay out of it is because the United Nations is located in the United States, the United States is the #1 financial sponsor of the United Nations, and the U.S. is the #1 economic and military enforcer of U.N. policy, especially when U.N. policy just happens to be what the United States wants, which is a lot of the time.

The United States wants as many democracy-style governments established as possible. Right now, the Middle East/Muslim world/Arab world is clearly lagging behind everyone else in such governments. A Palestinian state with a democracy-style government would be a model for the rest of the Arab/Muslim/Middle Eastern world to emulate, which is why it has been a major goal of our government since at least the George H. W. Bush administration to promote it. (Before then, during the Cold War, it was actually in western interests to promote authoritarian regimes because of the fear that democracies in that region would back the Soviet Union. The PLO also specifically sought support from the Soviets.)

I don’t support the Palestinians in this, because I am fairly certain of what a Palestinian state - democracy or otherwise - would look like. However, I also am not an Israel backer, because I don’t view that nation with the rose-colored glasses that either the premillennial dispensationalists or the western culture warriors choose to view it with.

Solo Christo, Soli Deo Gloria, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura http://healtheland.wordpress.com

Tue, 09/20/11
I’ve always felt that being pro-Israel theologically doesn’t always translate into being pro-Israel politically (depending on how one defines “pro” in both cases). The prophets of Israel were pro-Israel theologically, but they often pronounced socio-economic-political doom on the nation.

M. Scott Bashoor Happy Slave of Christ

Wed, 09/21/11
The prophets of Israel were pro-Israel politically. They wanted Israel to change and get right with God lest the nation perish according to the terms laid out in the Sinai covenant. In that sense, they were the true patriots. When Israel did not change their ways and brought the covenant curses on themselves, the prophets had no choice but to speak the word of God to Israel. So, they never lost their allegiance to Israel, but rather made their allegiance to the God of Israel primary. (And by the way, in OT Israel, there was no division between theology and politics … they were one and the same, even down to Israel’s economic and defense policy.)

But Christians only need to be concerned with the church and its mission, which is worship of God and the great commission. The Bible gives us no other mandate. Nowhere in the New Testament is the church commanded to act as advocates for Israel or the unbelieving Jews. As a matter of fact, Israel is barely mentioned in the New Testament after the Jerusalem Council in Acts. I do believe that several prophetic scriptures in the New Testament do speak of a prominent role that Israel will play in the endtimes - for instance the Romans prophecy of Paul that all Israel will be saved - but no duties of the church regarding any state created by unbelieving Jews is given.

Instead of supporting Israel - which we are not commanded to do - we should support God by keeping the commandments that He gave the church to keep.

Solo Christo, Soli Deo Gloria, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura http://healtheland.wordpress.com