The idea that this should not concern the church is open to argument. I’m assuming Job means Israel’s difficulties shouldn’t concern us any more than those of any other nation that suffers unjustly. So it really comes down to a theological question: is the nation we all Israel today special? My view is that it has always been very special, still is, and always will be.
Though the horrors of AD 70 hadn’t occurred yet when Paul wrote these words, does that really change anything?
Ro 3:1–4 NKJV 1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.”
And…
Ro 9:1–5 NKJV 1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
yes. But, it is a factor in Middle East foreign policy. The Israelis take the view “We took in the Jews displaced from their long time homes in Arab countries. Why can’t they do the same for those displaced in the 48 War?”
[Rob Fall] yes. But, it is a factor in Middle East foreign policy. The Israelis take the view “We took in the Jews displaced from their long time homes in Arab countries. Why can’t they do the same for those displaced in the 48 War?”
Why is it a bigger issue than, say, Eastern European foreign policy? Or Central American economic policy?
[Aaron Blumer] The idea that this should not concern the church is open to argument. I’m assuming Job means Israel’s difficulties shouldn’t concern us any more than those of any other nation that suffers unjustly. So it really comes down to a theological question: is the nation we all Israel today special? My view is that it has always been very special, still is, and always will be.
Though the horrors of AD 70 hadn’t occurred yet when Paul wrote these words, does that really change anything?
Ro 3:1–4 NKJV 1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.”
And…
Ro 9:1–5 NKJV 1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
Israel hasn’t existed as a sovereign nation since 586 B.C. We like to pretend that Israel is sovereign today, but the truth is that they exist under the overlordship of the same entity that created it: the United Nations (whose headquarters is in the U.S. by the way). Were Israel sovereign, they would have thrust out the “Palestinians” a long time ago, and there would be even more restrictions against Christian missionaries (and Messianic Jews such as the very one that produced that article) than there are now. Israel enjoys only little more autonomy under the U.N./U.S. than the Herodian monarchs enjoyed under Roman rule.
The verses in Romans, especially “all Israel will be saved” applies to the people of Israel. The idea that any political entity comprised of Jews will be significant to anyone but the Jews in any way is not asserted at any place in the New Testament. Not saying that it won’t happen and won’t be part of God’s plan for history - including His plan for the Jews - but said plan is not outlined in the NT, and as such is not relevant to Christians theologically.
The return of the Jewish exiles from Babylon was important to the church, a fact that both testaments make clear. But the importance or relevance of modern Israel to the church is not something that the Bible speaks of.
In Eastern Europe, there is the Trans-Dniester situation, the Polish\Russian relationship, the Ukrainian\Russian relationship, The Baltic\Russian, Belarus, the Balkans, Macedonia (FYRM)\Greece. IOW, Europe has its own set of diplomatic rocks shoals. The same can be said for Central America and every other region the US deals with. The latest bit of obscurity to come back to the front section is the Falklands (the Argies v. Brits).
So, no the Jewish refugees from the 48 War is not any bigger issue for the US than our Central American or Eastern European foreign and economic policies. But it is a factor in our Mid East policy, at least as the Israelis view it. While, the Arabs do not look at it as a factor.
The return of the Jewish exiles from Babylon was important to the church, a fact that both testaments make clear. But the importance or relevance of modern Israel to the church is not something that the Bible speaks of.
It’s not so easy to separate “modern Israel” from the Abrahamic covenant (Gen.12.3)… or from the passages in Romans. These are the same people and where we are in the timeline of their story doesn’t remove their unique place in the grand scheme of things.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Discussion
NewLet The Jews Fight Their Own Battles
Solo Christo, Soli Deo Gloria, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura http://healtheland.wordpress.com
NewJobK wrote: These are their
Richard Pajak
NewArguable point
I’m assuming Job means Israel’s difficulties shouldn’t concern us any more than those of any other nation that suffers unjustly. So it really comes down to a theological question: is the nation we all Israel today special?
My view is that it has always been very special, still is, and always will be.
Though the horrors of AD 70 hadn’t occurred yet when Paul wrote these words, does that really change anything?
And…
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
NewNothing to do with the church
Hoping to shed more light than heat..
NewAnd We Care About Middle Eastern Foreign Policy Why?
Solo Christo, Soli Deo Gloria, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura http://healtheland.wordpress.com
NewThe People Of Israel? Special. The Nation Of Israel? Not So Much
The verses in Romans, especially “all Israel will be saved” applies to the people of Israel. The idea that any political entity comprised of Jews will be significant to anyone but the Jews in any way is not asserted at any place in the New Testament. Not saying that it won’t happen and won’t be part of God’s plan for history - including His plan for the Jews - but said plan is not outlined in the NT, and as such is not relevant to Christians theologically.
The return of the Jewish exiles from Babylon was important to the church, a fact that both testaments make clear. But the importance or relevance of modern Israel to the church is not something that the Bible speaks of.
Solo Christo, Soli Deo Gloria, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura http://healtheland.wordpress.com
NewEach region has its own peculiarities
So, no the Jewish refugees from the 48 War is not any bigger issue for the US than our Central American or Eastern European foreign and economic policies. But it is a factor in our Mid East policy, at least as the Israelis view it. While, the Arabs do not look at it as a factor.
Hoping to shed more light than heat..
NewAbraham
It’s not so easy to separate “modern Israel” from the Abrahamic covenant (Gen.12.3)… or from the passages in Romans. These are the same people and where we are in the timeline of their story doesn’t remove their unique place in the grand scheme of things.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
NewPro-Israel
“I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you.”
Israel is far from perfect, but we should be the best friend they have.
Our friendship with them is one reason God has blessed America.
David R. Brumbelow