The Harmful Teaching of Wives as their Husbands' Porn Stars

One must be careful not to sound more holy than God regarding sex. Eph 5 makes it clear that a man should love his wife because it is absurd that he hate himself. Sex within marriage is a MUTUALLY beneficial reality when properly viewed. I reject the self centered view as much as the view that says one should only be concerned about the other person.

I recommend Piper’s book called “This momentary marriage” (I think that is the title). He comically said that God could have made it so that you started puking if you didn’t have sex twice a week. Instead, God made it pleasurable so that it would be enjoyed by both parties for both parties.

there is any danger of sounding more holy than God on this topic. And of course sexual relations are mutually beneficial, but there is nothing in Scripture to lead me to believe that one’s focus or motive should be on self gratification, but how we can mutually benefit each other - the by-product of which IS fulfillment. In marriage, this ability comes from a place of loving and knowing one’s spouse.

With books/movies like 50 Shades out there messing with people’s minds and hearts, it’s important to keep the focus on Biblical descriptions of healthy relationship dynamics instead of Tell All books and cheesy gimmicks like ‘how to spice up your lame sex life’.

Hey Dan-

I read this by Phil Johnson a few years ago:

After hours of writing and half a dozen drafts, I’ve decided not to review or link to Mark Driscoll’s latest book, Real Marriage. Over the past two weeks or so, lots of our readers have written via e-mail, Twitter, and Facebook to ask for a TeamPyro review of the book. Last week I said I’d go ahead and do it. But after trying for most of the weekend to write a review without breaching the boundaries of propriety and chaste conversation, I’m throwing in the towel.
The book is the umpteenth incarnation of Driscoll’s infamous homilies on sex and the Song of Solomon. It is by no means the first book in which he has dealt with supposedly taboo sexual topics in graphic ways that are calculated to shock. (Now that I think of it: Has he ever written a book that doesn’t somehow get around to the same themes that make up the table of contents of Porn-Again Christian?)
For several years, one of Driscoll’s websites has featured a lot of the same kind of explicit material that recent reviewers have found so offensive. (The website actually includes some links and recommendations that point readers to even more outlandish and sex-saturated websites, such as “Christian Nymphos” and XXXChurch.) So the current controversy about the book’s second half is literally years late. I’m quite amazed so many influential bloggers and Christian leaders seem totally unaware that Driscoll has been teaching this same stuff for years…
Yes, I did read the whole book. I was given a set of page proofs several weeks before the book was published. There wasn’t anything particularly new or stunning in the book—other than the details Driscoll reveals about his wife’s personal history and the admission that his own marriage was dysfunctional for more than a decade. Those are facts I didn’t need (or want) to know, and I am not interested in analyzing them further.
If I understand Driscoll’s timeline, his marriage was unhealthy for many more years than it has been “healthy.” I don’t know why he didn’t wait and at least balance the scales (and mature a bit more) before writing a book telling his disciples how to fix their marriages and liven up their sex lives.

Johnson’s review, and several others like that that called the book more damaging than helpful (Challies came to mind, but I’ve read a few), has colored my perspective of the usefulness (and I use that term extremely loosely) of his book. Even if I put aside all the other issues with Driscoll (including the remarks he made as William Wallace II that surfaced this week), I’m still very skittish of anything he says. Yet you seem to think that there was some stuff that might be helpful in this book. Is that a correct understanding of your position? I’m just a little surprised that someone out there seems to think that RM isn’t as bad as I’ve heard.

There’s a way to help couples deal with marital and sexual issues without exposing them to the firehose of filth that seems to come fairly regularly out of Mars Hill, and I’m a little surprised that you seem to think that the book might be helpful in certain circumstances.

With books/movies like 50 Shades out there messing with people’s minds and hearts, it’s important to keep the focus on Biblical descriptions of healthy relationship dynamics instead of Tell All books and cheesy gimmicks like ‘how to spice up your lame sex life’.

And if you think it’s bad now, wait until the movie comes out. I’ve seen more excited squeals online over the movie than I ever have the books.

Of course, why anyone would think of 50 Shades as anything edifying or even interesting - given that it is essentially a series of books on abuse - is beyond me.

the success of the book and probable success of the movie are going to serve as ‘proof’ that women secretly want to be abused, demeaned, and treated like objects of sexual gratification. Although if one were going to be faithful to the text, this only works for a woman if you are a super-hot billionaire.

[Jay]

With books/movies like 50 Shades out there messing with people’s minds and hearts, it’s important to keep the focus on Biblical descriptions of healthy relationship dynamics instead of Tell All books and cheesy gimmicks like ‘how to spice up your lame sex life’.

And if you think it’s bad now, wait until the movie comes out. I’ve seen more excited squeals online over the movie than I ever have the books.

Of course, why anyone would think of 50 Shades as anything edifying or even interesting - given that it is essentially a book on abuse - is beyond me.

[Susan R]

there is any danger of sounding more holy than God on this topic. And of course sexual relations are mutually beneficial, but there is nothing in Scripture to lead me to believe that one’s focus or motive should be on self gratification, but how we can mutually benefit each other - the by-product of which IS fulfillment. In marriage, this ability comes from a place of loving and knowing one’s spouse.

With books/movies like 50 Shades out there messing with people’s minds and hearts, it’s important to keep the focus on Biblical descriptions of healthy relationship dynamics instead of Tell All books and cheesy gimmicks like ‘how to spice up your lame sex life’.

I hope you mean that self gratification is wrong if it is at the expense of the other person. If you didn’t mean that, then I disagree with you and think you are wrong as well.

I’m talking about focus and motivation being in line with Biblical emphasis, not the physical results.

One minor side note here is that while I appreciate Dan Miller’s challenge to actually know what’s in the book, we have in many cases a pretty clear description from men we trust (MacArthur, Pyro guys, Wilson, Challies, and even others who are not even Christians) who note fairly clearly that there are some major gaps in Driscoll’s logic, and that there is a consistent trend on his part to choose the prurient. And thus armed with this testimony, we can legitimately choose not to buy it in order to read it—no sense giving Driscoll a royalty for some things that are theologically weak at best, and borderline smut at worst.

It’s worth noting as well that this is why books often come with a blurb on the jacket—so you can have an indication what’s inside, and quite frankly, it’s also worth noting that books of lesser quality often compensate with garish cover art. Not a perfect correlation, but you can sell Shakespeare without a garish cover—romance novels, not so much. The informed person is not bound to read every book before making a decision about its contents—again, that’s why we have the blurbs, reviews, and the like.

Side note 2: Susan, James is simply pointing out that where you said “there is nothing in Scripture to lead me to believe….., but how we can mutually benefit each other…”, it’s a somewhat clumsy wording that can give the wrong impression. A tighter wording would be “There is nothing in Scripture that leads me to believe that the purpose of married sexuality is on self-gratification. Rather, Scripture indicates that the purpose of married sexuality is mutual comfort and benefit for the glory of God.” Hopefully I’m reading your comments correctly here.

[Bert Perry] One minor side note here is that while I appreciate Dan Miller’s challenge to actually know what’s in the book, we have in many cases a pretty clear description from men we trust (MacArthur, Pyro guys, Wilson, Challies, and even others who are not even Christians) who note fairly clearly that there are some major gaps in Driscoll’s logic, and that there is a consistent trend on his part to choose the prurient. And thus armed with this testimony, we can legitimately choose not to buy it in order to read it—no sense giving Driscoll a royalty for some things that are theologically weak at best, and borderline smut at worst.

Bert,

I really appreciated this post, because it puts the finger squarely on an issue I’m dealing with right now. We are pretty clearly commanded to flee fornication (1 Cor. 6:18) and that there are some things that it’s shameful even to speak of (Ephesians 5:11-15). At the same time though, we are put in situations where people want to know what the Word of God says about some of these things (50 Shades, Driscoll’s “Can We ___________” chapter). So where do you (or others) draw the line and ‘need to know’ and “Do not enter the path of the wicked, and do not walk in the way of the evil. Avoid it; do not go on it; turn away from it and pass on​”, as the writer of Proverbs says? I mean, if a man comes to you and says “my wife keeps hearing about this book and wants to know about it”, what do you say?

That discussion may need to be a different thread though.

Almost off topic, but it strikes me that the huge success of both “50 shades” and “Real Marriage” does speak to a reality in our society in general and churches in particular; that masculinity has become so debased, men and women are searching for anything that tangentially resembles it. So instead of John Wayne as Sean Thornton dragging Mary Kate back from the train station and fighting her brother Will Danaher to regain her dowry and her respect, we’ve got Mark Driscoll and “50 Shades” making Mary Kate’s “stretch of the legs” look downright benign in comparison.

Having read Ms. Magazine while a young pup (my mom subscribed—post divorce hurt IMO), I think it would be very interesting to go back and talk with Gloria Steinem and company back then and tell them what modern feminist women are reading today. I think you would hear a gasp and “You have got to be kidding me.” But yet, it may be the necessary result of trading John Wayne for Alan Alda.

in written expression there, Mr. Perry. :) I thought I was clear when I italicized and capitalized to place the emphasis on “there is nothing in Scripture to lead me to believe that one’s focus or motive should be on self gratification, but how we can mutually benefit each other - the by-product of which IS fulfillment.”

But to explain further, when James K says “I hope you mean that self gratification is wrong if it is at the expense of the other person. If you didn’t mean that, then I disagree with you and think you are wrong as well.”

There is nothing in Scripture that leads me to believe that our heart motives are of no consequence as long as we are not gratifying our flesh at the expense of the other person. IOW, anything goes as long as it’s consensual? No - consent is not the criteria here - rather, the Bible teaches us to always do what is in the best interest of the other person FIRST - our own satisfaction, fulfillment, joy, etc… is usually the result of those motives and actions. Also, gratification and serving others are not always mutually exclusive, and it is not productive for this conversation to paint them as such.
So - even if a husband and wife are consenting to certain kinds of sexual experimentation, that does not mean those things are in the best interest of the other, or will benefit the marriage relationship. Motivation and consequences must be considered, because that is what Scripture commands us to do.

Dave Barry wrote an interesting view of the 50 Shades phenomena. http://time.com/3030375/dave-barry-50-shades-of-grey/

Why was this book so incredibly popular? When so many women get so emotionally involved in a badly written, comically unrealistic porno yarn, what does this tell us? That women are basically insane? Yes.

I mean no! No. Of course it does not tell us that. What it tells us is this: Women are interested in sex.

Jay- I think you raise a good question, because where ARE folks supposed to go to receive counsel on sensitive topics like this? Personally, I think the church should have enough spiritually mature men and women available to mentor others in appropriate settings. I’ve been to classes (and not just ones based on Total Woman) and human nature being what it is, the usual result is that the conversation degenerates into something that sounds more like girls at a sleepover playing Truth or Dare. People are either 1) far too truthful about their sex life 2) lie about their sex life. Either way, it’s not Godly or productive.
I’ve noticed several reviews of RM that mention the explicit information Driscoll gives about him and his wife. I view that kind of TMI as inappropriate but also a betrayal.

[Jay]

We are pretty clearly commanded to flee fornication (1 Cor. 6:18) and that there are some things that it’s shameful even to speak of (Ephesians 5:11-15). At the same time though, we are put in situations where people want to know what the Word of God says about some of these things (50 Shades, Driscoll’s “Can We ___________” chapter). So where do you (or others) draw the line and ‘need to know’ and “Do not enter the path of the wicked, and do not walk in the way of the evil. Avoid it; do not go on it; turn away from it and pass on​”, as the writer of Proverbs says? I mean, if a man comes to you and says “my wife keeps hearing about this book and wants to know about it”, what do you say?

It’s a great thing to ask; first thing you do is you ask them “have you read any reviews?”. Authors often hate critics, sometimes justifiably, but they do us a great service.

Another thing that comes to mind is to take people directly to Scripture—if one feels unequal to the task, let’s open that Bible more often! In the case of the books you mention, it strikes me that there are subtle implications of the Song of Songs and of 1 Cor. 7 that all believers ought to heed. In Song of Songs, just as classical artists often hide the crotch when doing nudes, there are no direct, explicit references to the body parts in the crotch. They are private. And so we ought to conclude that our natural shyness regarding these areas (1 Cor. 12:23, Leviticus 18) is God-given, and that often it is a sin to discuss them in public.

Regarding the second, consider the implications of being obligated, apart from mutual consent (and perhaps true physical disabillity, say post-pregnancy recover), to render due affection on a regular basis. Would we not infer that any behavior that is likely to injure or humiliate ought to be kept away from the marriage bed for that reason?

And armed with this knowledge, I think we can quickly arrive at the conclusion that “50 Shades” and “infamous chapter ten” don’t have a whole lot that Christians ought to be reading, no?

I just read Dave Barry’s article, and spit coffee all over my keyboard from laughing …

[James K]

I recommend Piper’s book called “This momentary marriage” (I think that is the title). He comically said that God could have made it so that you started puking if you didn’t have sex twice a week. Instead, God made it pleasurable so that it would be enjoyed by both parties for both parties.

Yes, that’s the book’s title, and it’s available for free at DesiringGod.org.

Just as an FYI - I keep a running list of free ebooks on SharperIron; you can always head to this thread to find them. The list can go a little while without being updated since the whole thing is word-of-mouth, but I do try and update it whenever I hear or see of something that might be of interest.