Goodbye TULIP, hello ... PROOF?

A Calvinist entered the pearly gates and saw 2 lines; one labeled “Elect” and one labeled “Free Will”.

The Calvinist approached the Elect line and upon arrival at the gate, the angel asked, “What brings you to this line?”. The Calvinist replied, “I chose to come to this line”. The angel responded, “The Free Will line is over there”.

So the Calvinist traveled to the Free Will line. When he arrived, the angel of the Free Will line asked, “What brings you to this line”, and the Calvinisted replied, “I was forced into coming to this line”.

2 Thess. 2:13 says that the saints are “chosen to salvation.” But this is said to be “through” (ev) “sanctification by/of the Spirit and belief in the truth.” The preposition governs the two phrases. These are conditions of salvation, and this accords with justification by faith (no faith, no justification, hence no salvation - Rom. 3:23f.; 5:1).

This verse declares that salvation is conditioned, but it also declares that salvation comes to people via God’s choosing. If we now compare this with verses like 1 Pet. 1:2; Eph. 1:11, and 3:11, where God’s foreknowledge and eternal purpose are in view, it is hard to come away not believing that God’s choice relates to both the people and the means of them coming to salvation (cf. 1 Cor. 1:2).

In places like Eph. 1:4, supported by Rom. 8:29 and 2 Tim. 1:9, the election is to our walk as saints and not so much to what makes us saints. This is sometimes overlooked in these discussions.

GN BARMKAN SAYS: “Many will welcome the opportunity to examine these doctrines again. I applaud every effort to present these truths in a new format, to help people get past labels and various misperceptions.

In my personal experience, however, I have learned that the primary problem is usually distaste for the truth itself, not the package in which it is found.”

I fail to see why if the “truths” of-assuming you mean TULIP-TULIP are presented in a prima facie matter that they would need to be reformatted. I further fail to see how altering the acronym helps “people get past labels and various misconceptions”. Is not PROOF still a label of what Calvin’s theology is?

And while I can not contend about your experiences as subjective as experiences are, I can say that your experience begins on the premise that those who disagree have a distaste for the truth. You have made that premise without any qualifying evidence or debate and it excludes any chance of answering a legitimate question: what if you’re wrong?

[Paul Henebury]

2 Thess. 2:13 says that the saints are “chosen to salvation.” But this is said to be “through” (ev) “sanctification by/of the Spirit and belief in the truth.” The preposition governs the two phrases. These are conditions of salvation, and this accords with justification by faith (no faith, no justification, hence no salvation - Rom. 3:23f.; 5:1).

This verse declares that salvation is conditioned, but it also declares that salvation comes to people via God’s choosing. If we now compare this with verses like 1 Pet. 1:2; Eph. 1:11, and 3:11, where God’s foreknowledge and eternal purpose are in view, it is hard to come away not believing that God’s choice relates to both the people and the means of them coming to salvation (cf. 1 Cor. 1:2).

In places like Eph. 1:4, supported by Rom. 8:29 and 2 Tim. 1:9, the election is to our walk as saints and not so much to what makes us saints. This is sometimes overlooked in these discussions.

I would add to that that this verse emphasises that it is the method of salvation from God’s perspective this is chosen here, the emphasis is not on the person chosen but the means chosen.