I used a phrase in an earlier comment: “attack blog” which was needlessly inflammatory. The temptation to sarcasm is ever with us, but it adds no light, only heat. I withdraw the phrase and apologize for its use. The rest of my comment stands, however.
Everyone knows what blog you are talking about … and you were right the first time
Friends, if anyone thinks Matt Olson should write an article about his beliefs or his thoughts on the direction of Northland, he would be making a big mistake.
Consider again what I posted and evaluate how it has been interpreted by friend and foe alike.
Matt should just pull a page from the Billy Graham playbook and not respond to his critics in a public forum, ever. His words will just be misinterpreted.
This is an interesting issue. I tend to disagree that one can handle something like this like Billy Graham did. Not in 2013.
For sure, Olson owes no explanation to the Don Johnsons and Lou Martuneacs of the world. But I think the world has changed and now, he can’t just decide to ignore it. Look at politics. That is the way it used to be done but no politician can get away with that now.
Assuming they are acting on conviction, I personally think this has the potential to be a good strategic move for them. There is a growing segment in fundamentalism that is tired of the music Nazis. There are certainly enough in that segment to support a college of Northland’s size. What is the alternative? Die slowly like all the other fundamentalist colleges? They are pretty much all in a death spiral at the moment. As dangerous as this is, the status quo is probably even more dangerous.
All the critics of NIU are missing a crucial point. They are concerned to “protect” the institution and its students from something (a style of music) that the students have already adopted. In the 1990’s, NIU was already regarded as more reasonable than BJU on the peripheral issues. It’s a near certainty that the overwhelming majority of NIU’s students are entirely comfortable with CCM. They keep it in their cars on campus, they have it on their iPods and phones, they listen to it regularly at home, at least some of them come from churches that use it in their youth groups if not in their main worship services, and so on. Believe me, they are familiar with Peter Furler, Big Daddy Weave, Chris Tomlin, and the other artists of whom some of the critics have never heard. They have already concluded that the categorical arguments against any and all CCM are unsustainable. On this issue, there is nothing left from which to “protect” the institution and the students. Continuing to hammer NIU and Olson about it is unfair, useless, and wrong.
dcbii - Good observations about both the good and bad of the internet. You are right. We can all go to the source and see for ourselves today.
Greg H - Another good observation. The reality of the situation is that all of us can read Matt’s blog, hear his sermons, and view his vidcasts. So all he really has to do is keep doing what he is doing and no one should be in doubt about what he believes or where NIU is headed.
Mike Harding - Thanks for your response. As noted, I am not an insider or well-connected with the leaders of NIU. I haven’t spoken to Harold Patz or Les Ollila either. I’m not upset with BJU style fundamentalism. It just doesn’t represent the history and background of the Patz family. So if NIU is changing from its former position and moving towards the views of the family, that is a good thing as far as I am concerned. It is also true that the children of the leaders at NIU are serving in “conservative evangelical” organizations like the EFCA, Campus Crusade for Christ, etc. So when Olson claims that NIU needs to catch up to the alumni, which alumni is he talking about? He’s talking about the leaders’ kids! Nobody told me this. It is just an observation. I view that as a “wake up.” Certainly something triggered the change of direction at NIU. I’m taking Olson at his word and taking seriously his desire to catch up with the alumni (leaders’ children included).
To All - Which leads me to make this point. None of us are so dense that we can’t see or understand the changes taking place at NIU. We don’t need to act surprised as if some new information just fell from the sky. NIU really is catching up to much of its alumni. That means some alumni that don’t want to change will be upset. So what should you do? Support the school that represents your beliefs on music, fellowship and discipleship. If you like BJU, then support them. If you like NIU and its changes, then support them. If you like MBBC, well there you go. There is a school for everyone.
Thanks everyone for the discussion. May God be praised. Blessings.
That’s just it. There are and have been any number of other options of alternatives for students. For better or worse, making moves like this makes them ultimately less unique, not more so. If I were 18, and looking at the options, why would I choose isolation in northern Wisconsin over options like:
Clearwater
Piedmont
Clarks Summit
Masters
Appalachian
Liberty
And that’s just for starters. Maybe I’m clueless here, but what make Northland desirable over some of these others?
Plus it (although it calls itself a “college” has broader offerings (like engineering, computer science, accounting and finance (for example) than Northland University. Plus … the weather! A very fine young adult from our church is a PCC grad. As is one of our Deacons (works technology at the bank where I work) and his wife are grads. Another 4th deacon just sent his kid there.
That’s just it. There are and have been any number of other options of alternatives for students. For better or worse, making moves like this makes them ultimately less unique, not more so. If I were 18, and looking at the options, why would I choose isolation in northern Wisconsin over options like:
Clearwater
Piedmont
Clarks Summit
Masters
Appalachian
Liberty
And that’s just for starters. Maybe I’m clueless here, but what make Northland desirable over some of these others?
When I asked about the alternative, I was not referring to alternative colleges for students to attend. I was rather asking what is the alternative to Northland making changes. The obvious alternative is NOT changing and trying to appeal to the same base. Clearly that is not working since pretty much all the fundamental schools are struggling.
It is really clear from my business perspective. If you are losing customers (students), you could just try to keep the doors open as long as possible or you could decide to make the changes to turn it around. I suspect they have decided to just make the changes and deal with the controversy.
I would add Cedarville to this list - especially students who are interested in business or hard sciences, geology (from a YEC perspective), mathematics, pharmacy, etc. They are usually on a top tier list of private colleges in the country (top 50). And they still have some profs who are GARBC church members.
It is really clear from my business perspective. If you are losing customers (students), you could just try to keep the doors open as long as possible or you could decide to make the changes to turn it around. I suspect they have decided to just make the changes and deal with the controversy.
The rapidity of the change at Northland projects (at least to me) desperation
I would add Cedarville to this list - especially students who are interested in business or hard sciences, geology (from a YEC perspective), mathematics, pharmacy, etc. They are usually on a top tier list of private colleges in the country (top 50). And they still have some profs who are GARBC church members.
Well, I’m not sure I would. Cedarville pushes more than the music envelope. My wife attended there before we were married, and even in 1993-94, they had Phillips Craig and Dean in for a concert (problem with more than music, as Dan Phillips notes). They’ve had more recently figures in to speak like Donald Miller and Shane Claiborne. The recent theological controversies, too, make me put it in a different category than the others. But that’s me.
Do they still hold to the KJV Only position from the tapes a few years back? Or did they let go of that?
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
We believe that the Bible is the verbally inspired and infallible, authoritative Word of God and that God gave the words of Scripture by inspiration without error in the original autographs. God promises that He will preserve His Word; Jesus said, “my words shall not pass away”—Matt. 24:35. We believe God has kept that promise by preserving His infallible Word in the traditional Hebrew and Greek manuscripts and that the Authorized Version (KJV) is an accurate English translation of the preserved Word of God.
Some call this KJVO … I regard it more of a KJV preference. It’s definitely not Ruckman’s position. But leave your ESV, NASB etc at home.
On a side note, I don’t quite know why people make a big deal about the change from college to university.
Do you really think it was over college to university? I mean, if they had become “Northland Baptist University” would most of the current objectors have made a peep? I think as things go, it is probably pretty low on the list of current concerns, but I don’t think the name change was ever about dropping college.
But in regards to the college/uni distinction, I do keep wondering when Ivy League Dartmouth College is going to wise up and become a university… :) or all the schools listed here… How do their graduates make it in the world?
Discussion
New"attack blog"
Everyone knows what blog you are talking about … and you were right the first time
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewDon Sailer wrote:Friends, if
This is an interesting issue. I tend to disagree that one can handle something like this like Billy Graham did. Not in 2013.
For sure, Olson owes no explanation to the Don Johnsons and Lou Martuneacs of the world. But I think the world has changed and now, he can’t just decide to ignore it. Look at politics. That is the way it used to be done but no politician can get away with that now.
Assuming they are acting on conviction, I personally think this has the potential to be a good strategic move for them. There is a growing segment in fundamentalism that is tired of the music Nazis. There are certainly enough in that segment to support a college of Northland’s size. What is the alternative? Die slowly like all the other fundamentalist colleges? They are pretty much all in a death spiral at the moment. As dangerous as this is, the status quo is probably even more dangerous.
NewCritics are ignoring a crucial point
My apologies for getting Dudding’s name wrong.
All the critics of NIU are missing a crucial point. They are concerned to “protect” the institution and its students from something (a style of music) that the students have already adopted. In the 1990’s, NIU was already regarded as more reasonable than BJU on the peripheral issues. It’s a near certainty that the overwhelming majority of NIU’s students are entirely comfortable with CCM. They keep it in their cars on campus, they have it on their iPods and phones, they listen to it regularly at home, at least some of them come from churches that use it in their youth groups if not in their main worship services, and so on. Believe me, they are familiar with Peter Furler, Big Daddy Weave, Chris Tomlin, and the other artists of whom some of the critics have never heard. They have already concluded that the categorical arguments against any and all CCM are unsustainable. On this issue, there is nothing left from which to “protect” the institution and the students. Continuing to hammer NIU and Olson about it is unfair, useless, and wrong.
Newdcbii - Good observations
dcbii - Good observations about both the good and bad of the internet. You are right. We can all go to the source and see for ourselves today.
Greg H - Another good observation. The reality of the situation is that all of us can read Matt’s blog, hear his sermons, and view his vidcasts. So all he really has to do is keep doing what he is doing and no one should be in doubt about what he believes or where NIU is headed.
Mike Harding - Thanks for your response. As noted, I am not an insider or well-connected with the leaders of NIU. I haven’t spoken to Harold Patz or Les Ollila either. I’m not upset with BJU style fundamentalism. It just doesn’t represent the history and background of the Patz family. So if NIU is changing from its former position and moving towards the views of the family, that is a good thing as far as I am concerned. It is also true that the children of the leaders at NIU are serving in “conservative evangelical” organizations like the EFCA, Campus Crusade for Christ, etc. So when Olson claims that NIU needs to catch up to the alumni, which alumni is he talking about? He’s talking about the leaders’ kids! Nobody told me this. It is just an observation. I view that as a “wake up.” Certainly something triggered the change of direction at NIU. I’m taking Olson at his word and taking seriously his desire to catch up with the alumni (leaders’ children included).
To All - Which leads me to make this point. None of us are so dense that we can’t see or understand the changes taking place at NIU. We don’t need to act surprised as if some new information just fell from the sky. NIU really is catching up to much of its alumni. That means some alumni that don’t want to change will be upset. So what should you do? Support the school that represents your beliefs on music, fellowship and discipleship. If you like BJU, then support them. If you like NIU and its changes, then support them. If you like MBBC, well there you go. There is a school for everyone.
Thanks everyone for the discussion. May God be praised. Blessings.
NewGregH wrote: What is the
That’s just it. There are and have been any number of other options of alternatives for students. For better or worse, making moves like this makes them ultimately less unique, not more so. If I were 18, and looking at the options, why would I choose isolation in northern Wisconsin over options like:
And that’s just for starters. Maybe I’m clueless here, but what make Northland desirable over some of these others?
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
NewThe best value for Christian College
Is … Pensacola Christian College (chart below)
Plus it (although it calls itself a “college” has broader offerings (like engineering, computer science, accounting and finance (for example) than Northland University. Plus … the weather! A very fine young adult from our church is a PCC grad. As is one of our Deacons (works technology at the bank where I work) and his wife are grads. Another 4th deacon just sent his kid there.
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewGreg Linscott wrote: GregH
When I asked about the alternative, I was not referring to alternative colleges for students to attend. I was rather asking what is the alternative to Northland making changes. The obvious alternative is NOT changing and trying to appeal to the same base. Clearly that is not working since pretty much all the fundamental schools are struggling.
It is really clear from my business perspective. If you are losing customers (students), you could just try to keep the doors open as long as possible or you could decide to make the changes to turn it around. I suspect they have decided to just make the changes and deal with the controversy.
NewOther Schools
Greg,
I would add Cedarville to this list - especially students who are interested in business or hard sciences, geology (from a YEC perspective), mathematics, pharmacy, etc. They are usually on a top tier list of private colleges in the country (top 50). And they still have some profs who are GARBC church members.
NewGregH wrote: I suspect they
Only, in many ways, that doesn’t seem to be the case, when they post things and pull them. I still don’t get that.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
NewThe rapidity of the change at Northland has ...
The rapidity of the change at Northland projects (at least to me) desperation
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewCAWatson wrote: Greg, I
Well, I’m not sure I would. Cedarville pushes more than the music envelope. My wife attended there before we were married, and even in 1993-94, they had Phillips Craig and Dean in for a concert (problem with more than music, as Dan Phillips notes). They’ve had more recently figures in to speak like Donald Miller and Shane Claiborne. The recent theological controversies, too, make me put it in a different category than the others. But that’s me.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
NewPCC
Do they still hold to the KJV Only position from the tapes a few years back? Or did they let go of that?
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
NewPCC articles of faith
http://www.pcci.edu/CollegeInfo/ArticlesofFaith.html
We believe that the Bible is the verbally inspired and infallible, authoritative Word of God and that God gave the words of Scripture by inspiration without error in the original autographs. God promises that He will preserve His Word; Jesus said, “my words shall not pass away”—Matt. 24:35. We believe God has kept that promise by preserving His infallible Word in the traditional Hebrew and Greek manuscripts and that the Authorized Version (KJV) is an accurate English translation of the preserved Word of God.
Some call this KJVO … I regard it more of a KJV preference. It’s definitely not Ruckman’s position. But leave your ESV, NASB etc at home.
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewAndrew K. wrote: On a side
Do you really think it was over college to university? I mean, if they had become “Northland Baptist University” would most of the current objectors have made a peep? I think as things go, it is probably pretty low on the list of current concerns, but I don’t think the name change was ever about dropping college.
But in regards to the college/uni distinction, I do keep wondering when Ivy League Dartmouth College is going to wise up and become a university… :) or all the schools listed here… How do their graduates make it in the world?
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
New"And I did say it was a side note."
Sure. I’m not losing sleep over it, either. I must have missed the comment you were responding to. Sorry.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN